Feed The Beast Wiki:Staff's Noticeboard/Archive/2016

Template:Gc changes?
Following changes are being done by the bot, and should be seen as "common practice": Will probably make some other changes along the line as well, to help make everything standardized :D Cblair91 (talk) 04:18, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
 * is now removed, never use dis.
 * is now.
 * with a blank param, or  should be removed.
 * should also be deleted, if you haven't done that. Btw, you forgot to update the issue number :P -Xbony2 (talk) 15:03, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * We're not Minecraft Wiki-ing putting redirects left, right and centre right? Because that's a shit method instead of doing it properly with link.  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 17:12, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Well something I thought that may seem to be better is, all items be page named as "Item (Mod)", rather than "Item" page... That way, the main "Item" page can be a redirect/disambig as required? Though getting other staff's views may be better for that. Also on a note for Choco: It's better to have redirects than to /not/ have redirects. ^_^ There's not an issue with HAVING a redirect, even if it's never used, rather than NOT having a redirect, and it wanting to be used. Cblair91 (talk) 19:49, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Making redirects back to a disambig page though? I deleted 12 of those, and that was just the IC2 ones I noticed.


 * Yup, that was a mess-up xD But hence why I brought to question, wouldn't it be better to use "Item (Mod)" page naming, that way it'll work out cleaner for redirects (and mean a lot less?), and for disambiguation pages :D Cblair91 (talk) 20:05, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I've played with that idea before, but it would take a long time to change everything, even with bots. -Xbony2 (talk) 20:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * You're ignoring the fact suddenly everything needing a redirect is inverted and pretty much every page is broken. You'd pulverise the wiki for days (at least) with the amount of bot activity needed to fix everything.  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 21:00, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Okay Choco, imagine we do change over to "Item (Mod)"... My bot can rename the pages, my bot can fix up all links on other pages, it can make the process completely smooth. Sure, it'll take around 2 days to run through the 7k+ content pages, but surely it'd be better to have a proper standard? Something structured, which we don't have to do little fixes here and there in the modules/template to accommodate. Would you not say that is better? The cases where it would go through, I can program the bot to be so efficient and effective that it would make all the transition work, not break, and on top of that, not "derp up the wiki". Cblair91 (talk) 22:40, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I think I'd prefer if everything was "Item (Mod)" and then then "Item" was either a redirect or a disambig. Of course care would need to be taken with regards to moving translated pages. If your bot tries to move a translated page and screws it up, there will be hell to pay. 🐇 R e t e p 9 9 8 🐇🐰 Bunny Overlord 🐰 06:59, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * That's about the only exception, it can't handle moving translation pages via API. So they'll have to be done manually :P BUT means we can fix the translation markups on a LOT of pages before we move them :D Cblair91 (talk) 07:37, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * , are you okay with moving all the translated pages yourself? 🐇 R e t e p 9 9 8 🐇🐰 Bunny Overlord 🐰 09:38, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I'll be assisting him with all the translation page moving, and probably overseeing the project, making sure it runs smooth etc. So will be doing a bulk of work myself :) Cblair91 (talk) 11:03, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Yeah. -Xbony2 (talk) 11:29, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

But a perm ban if you don't use a bot account to do it ok?  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 18:09, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Any bulk changes will be VIA bot, but some stuff where I'm fixing pages while I'm going won't be bot accounted (e.g. when I'm cleaning up the G template on the page before moving) Cblair91 (talk) 18:18, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

This will also require a brief re-examination of NI and NID. As disambiguation would be the new default, for sanity NI would need to be modified to default to disambiguated links (and thus NID would become obsolete). - PaladinAHOne Staff (talk) 07:58, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Votes
Votes regarding the overhaul of   to  , and of the page naming standards to "Item (Mod)".
 * There must be at least 5 accepting votes for this to pass (as majority based vote from staff)


 * Yup Cblair91 (talk) 20:00, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * - This is xbony and Cblair point waring. On a less stop spamming the recent changes point, the current system is fine and makes linking much more obvious than every normal item page being a disambig page to the one mod that has that item. Everything is wired to use it and will inevitably go wrong, causing the entire wiki to be broken for weeks (if not months) as bugs are discovered, and there has been little planning past "oh sure we'll do it", despite the great risk of crashing everything when you press the wrong button. Also, Retep will do silly things he'd most likely regret after you guys fuck up an already overworked FuzzyBot and splatter translated pages everywhere. Silly things like this .  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 20:32, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * That thing with the sex toys was totally an accident, I swear. 🐇 R e t e p 9 9 8 🐇🐰 Bunny Overlord 🐰 23:49, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Those sex toys must be in the yuppie parts of Portland. I haven't seen one in any neighborhood near my apt. --  Satanic Santa F T B Wiki Admin 21:57, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Fuzzybot will talked to with devs, to make sure that it has a higher time rating (aka moves more pages per hour than normal). Also regarding the changes, we're not planning on doing it "right this moment", yes it will require planning, that will be discussed at the staff meeting. All the systems will be fixed to support both while under transition, and then changed to support the new system when done. Cblair91 (talk) 23:32, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Note 2: If there is only one item with the item name, that page would be a REDIRECT to the "Item (Mod)" page, where in cases a second one comes, it's easy swap to a disambig, no page moving needed, no link updating needed. That's the point, before it would link to said page, but when that becomes a disambig, EVERY link to that page, then needs to update to the "Item (Mod)" page anyway? So surely doing this by default, would mean we DON'T have to update every link occurrence? Cblair91 (talk) 23:53, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the Recent Changes, but it's not really not that bad. Some/many things may be broken and will take a while to repair, but I do believe it will be worth it in the end. FuzzyBot will very likely be fine, the week-long translation period he did before seems to be over, he finished updating Staff in about 10-20 minutes which is pretty damn good. -Xbony2 (talk) 21:33, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't want to push forward with this yet. I'd prefer to hold off until I feel more ready. To clarify, I am in favor of using Item (Mod) for all pages and having Item be either a redirect or disambig, however I am not comfortable with doing those mass edits at the moment. 🐇 R e t e p 9 9 8 🐇🐰 Bunny Overlord 🐰 23:49, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by that? -Xbony2 (talk) 23:53, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I wanna write a cool program to gather various statistics on the overall network of pages and links including redirects and such, in Rust of course. 🐇 R e t e p 9 9 8 🐇🐰 Bunny Overlord 🐰 23:58, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Rust scrub :P Don't stall it though, mkay? You aren't really known for getting things done :P -Xbony2 (talk) 00:12, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * per Chocohead. I don't see the point of this mostly unneeded and dangerous operation. Or I might not be that familiar with this system... &mdash;  NickTheRed37 t/c • F T B &ensp;Wiki Translator 06:53, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Lets put it this way: Item released, we make page "Item", create all Gc templates to it. Another item released with same name. We move the original "Item" page over to "Item (Mod)", same with the new item. We have to go back and update all Gc occurrences to the new page, rather than the disambig. New system: That's already in place, we don't have to update ANY Gc occurrences. Cblair91 (talk) 13:32, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Can we just update Gc's with bots instead? We have 7 bots that can work concurrently. &mdash;  NickTheRed37 t/c • F T B &ensp;Wiki Translator 05:56, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Part of Gc has already been edited with bots (the removal of the 'dis' parameter and 'link=false' to 'link=none'). Fixing G is a bit more difficult for bots to automate though, since it needs to come up with a mod parameter to convert it into Gc (very few G uses have supplied mod parameters). -Xbony2 (talk) 11:25, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * why has dis been removed? Thats utterly stupid since many, many pages depend heavily on that parameter. Unless someone took yhe time to run a bot to fix all used of it (i don't remember this happening), there are now probably millions of redlinks all over the wiki. This should not have been done without discussing it with the rest of the staff first, and taking the proper procedures before changing it. You cant just willy nilly remove parameters and templates because you personally want a specific change done to how we do things. (Not specifically directed at you xbony btw) --  Satanic Santa F T B Wiki Admin 18:24, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Meet the million relink bot: http://ftb.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Cblair91Bot&offset=20150714014839&limit=250&target=Cblair91Bot
 * Each one of those changes removes dis without replacing it with link.  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 20:08, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Jesus fucking Christ. --  Satanic Santa F T B Wiki Admin 00:22, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I count about 1500 page removals, which bearing in mind a crafting grid could have up to 10 in... There will be a very high potential for over 10,000 broken Gc links at this point. It's like G? but 10x worse if we don't revert them immediately and patch the differences for pages that have changed since it.  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 01:19, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I could easily write a script for my bot to go through all those edits and roll them back. However, it would not be able to handle pages that have changed since the bot did its shit. That would need to be checked and done manually. Should I do this, for the time being while this whole situation is dealt with properly? --  Satanic Santa F T B Wiki Admin 08:45, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I say yes. The longer we leave it the more pages are modified and will have to be fixed manually.  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 09:46, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I have done it, though it failed on quite a few. See the Wiki Talk forum for the list of pages it failed on. --  Satanic Santa F T B Wiki Admin 21:57, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I put the list below this so the pages can be crossed off/removed when they're done.  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 22:41, 18 July 2015 (UTC)


 * pretty much covered it. My main issue with it is its pointlessness. I'm also leaning towards Neutral for the same reason as Peter, but I still oppose. Idk I'm stoned. --  Satanic Santa F T B Wiki Admin 08:03, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
 * From a structural standpoint, this actually makes sense. As the number of pages, mods, and items covered increases, we're going to be crashing into more and more disambiguation issues. This being said, it is really annoying that disambiguated page links are twice as long as normal page links. To that end I propose a new mini-template (that I was probably going to make one of these days anyway) that accepts a page link and a mod name/mod ID and places a disambiguated page link that is both shorter to code and easier to read when editing, compared with the standard link . Will this be annoying to go through with? Probably. In lots of places and ways. But as Nick points out, probably without fully knowing what he is invoking but also probably correctly, we have the power of automation. Mass automation. We can rebuild the Gcs, we have the technology. The thing is though, as Chocohead points out, we need to do a little more than simply say "do it". If we attack this the way we attacked G? six months ago, it would go much better than if we attack it the way we have attacked the list of suggestions I collected from /r/feedthebeast 3 months ago. Also if nothing else this might be a way of making Peter do something. (If we get too held up on that though... someone may decide to invoke .) - PaladinAHOne  Staff (talk) 07:53, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Vote changed from Support to Neutral following the overly BOLD removal of the dis= parameter. That parameter is removable, but it is NOT safe to delete from the entire wiki until AFTER the entire re-linking has been completed. Removal of dis= should be literally the second-to-last step of this process, because even while dis=false is present, the Gcs would link to non-disambiguated pages, which is at least a pointer in the right direction (and, if the original "leave redirects behind" plan was kept, would be still leaving good functional links). As it is, deleting dis= first creates a pointless linking disaster. - PaladinAHOne Staff (talk) 02:21, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I have to admit that I'm seriously out of the loop on this issue due to a lot of things like final exams period and holidays. I'm not quite sure what recent changes drama has gone on; so would someone be able to briefly describe the problem (assuming there is one with the current system) and what your actually proposing to do. -- Wolfman_123_ ·&#32;✉ F T B  Wiki Staff  01:11, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There's no problem, just Cblair and xbony want more wiki points. Cblair also took it upon herself to break Gc by removing  without fixing the links with  . They want to change it so every page has "Name (Mod)" but have totally overlooked everything that doesn't expect that to happen and was never designed for it (the bee and tree stuff for example, but pretty much every template would be affected).  Chocohead  Nag • Edits • Staff 01:19, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * ^ Oh, and regarding the Recent Changes stuff, xbony and Cblair like using their normal accounts as bots, hence the masses of spam.
 * Speaking of which. Both of you need to knock it off. Seriously. You have bots for a reason. Use them. --  Satanic Santa F T B Wiki Admin 08:39, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay I agree that removing  is a very, very bad idea. Like you said a large portion of pages and templates are built around it due to the simple fact that the " (Mod)" formatting is not ideal for every page we maintain on this wiki. As for point whoring I can't really comment on the issue as I haven't been around, however I do agree that the amount of spam in recent changes is beyond ridiculous. Listen to Santa and use your bots, that's the why we all have them ffs. -- Wolfman_123_  ·&#32;✉ F T B  Wiki Staff  03:08, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Pages still requiring fixing
Cross them off/remove them when you do them so we have an idea what is still left.  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 22:41, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Firework Display Flux Plate Mold Bow Mold Sickle Mold Boots Mold Leggings Mold Chestplate Mold Helmet Mold Hoe Mold Shovel Mold Sword Mold Axe Mold Pickaxe Mold Stairs Mold Slab Mold Block Mold Ingot Mold (Foundry) Blank Soft Mold Refractory Hopper Material Router Alloy Furnace (Foundry) Refractory Fluid Container Metal Infuser Alloy Mixer Refractory Casing Refractory Brick Refractory Clay Heating Coil Metal Caster Induction Crucible Furnace Machine Chassis Blank Module Item Output Mixed Sand Mixed Dirt Hemp Seed Oil Hemp Hemp Seeds Steamed Imphide Steam Tank (GregTech 4) Automatic Recycler Automatic Canning Machine Automatic Compressor Automatic Extractor Automatic E-Furnace Destructopack Redstone Wand Energy Input Fluid Input Item Input Fluidic Nether Portal Flux Pipe Fluid Pipe (Engineer's Toolbox) Spray Paint Solar Panel (Engineer's Toolbox) Electronic Circuit (Engineer's Toolbox) Power Management Device Engineer's Wrench Modular Socket Electric Heat Generator Charging Lapotron Crystal Charging Energy Crystal Advanced Charging Battery Charging RE Battery Solid Heat Generator Advanced Miner Tritter Boots Tier II Tritter Leggings Tier II Tritter Chestplate Tier II Tritter Helmet Tier II Tritter Boots Tritter Leggings Tritter Chestplate Tritter Helmet Vrutri Boots Tier II Vrutri Leggings Tier II Vrutri Chestplate Tier II Vrutri Helmet Tier II Vrutri Boots Vrutri Leggings Vrutri Chestplate Vrutri Helmet Olite Boots Tier II Olite Leggings Tier II Olite Chestplate Tier II Olite Helmet Tier II Olite Boots Olite Leggings Olite Chestplate Olite Helmet Redur Boots Tier II Redur Leggings Tier II Redur Chestplate Tier II Redur Helmet Tier II Redur Boots Redur Leggings Redur Chestplate Redur Helmet Frevinite Boots Tier II Frevinite Leggings Tier II Frevinite Chestplate Tier II Frevinite Helmet Tier II Frevinite Boots Frevinite Leggings Frevinite Chestplate Frevinite Helmet Trivu Boots Tier II Trivu Leggings Tier II Trivu Chestplate Tier II Trivu Helmet Tier II Trivu Boots Trivu Leggings Trivu Chestplate Trivu Helmet Unix Boots Tier II Unix Leggings Tier II Unix Chestplate Tier II Unix Helmet Tier II Unix Boots Unix Leggings Unix Chestplate Unix Helmet Frav Boots Tier II Frav Leggings Tier II Frav Chestplate Tier II Frav Helmet Tier II Frav Boots Frav Leggings Frav Chestplate Frav Helmet Slippery Blocks Stone Dust Porcelain Clay Silk Mesh Windmeter Fertilizer (IndustrialCraft 2) Energypack Advanced Batpack Ermyst Chestplate Tier II Trivu Stick Redtri Horse Armor Brunim Horse Armor Tritter Horse Armor Shadow Horse Armor Vrutri Horse Armor Olite Horse Armor Redur Horse Armor Frevinite Horse Armor Trivu Horse Armor Unix Horse Armor Frav Horse Armor Oni Horse Armor Ermyst Horse Armor Redtri Pickaxe Tier II Redtri Shovel Redtri Axe Redtri Sword Energy Flow Circuit (GregTech 4) Data Control Circuit (GregTech 4) Ermyst Helmet Tier II Ermyst Boots Ermyst Leggings Ermyst Chestplate Ermyst Helmet Clockwork Mechanism Brass Pocket-Watch Insulated Copper Wire Advanced Circuit Parts (GregTech 4) Copper Wire User:ESAEBSAD/Sandbox2 Tungsten Enderium Small Coal Boiler (GregTech 4) Meteor Shield Kreknorite Ingot Kreknorite Block Frozen Iron Block Drak Stone Sandy Coal Compound (Project Red) Sky Stone (The Mists of RioV) Redtri Pickaxe Healing Axe Block of Red Meteor Gem Meteorite Block Meteorite Ingot Meteorite Hoe Meteorite Spade Meteorite Pickaxe Meteorite Axe Meteorite Sword Anvil (The Mists of RioV) Encyclopedia Aura Brunim Shovel Tier II Brunim Axe Tier II Brunim Sword Tier II Brunim Pickaxe Tier II Brunim Shovel Brunim Axe Brunim Sword Brunim Pickaxe Enhancer Ermyst Shovel Tier II Ermyst Axe Tier II Ermyst Shovel Ermyst Axe Small Power Unit Iridium Drill Gold Ermyst Sword Tier II Ermyst Sword Redstone Inlay Extra Trees Fluids Ermyst Pickaxe Tier II Ermyst Pickaxe Sky Planks Cer Planks Trivu Block Dark Matter Axe Dark Matter Shovel Dark Matter Hammer Dark Matter Pickaxe Dark Matter Sword Ermyst Block Shadow Block Relay MK2 Tin Cable Twisting Band Steam Heater User:Xbony2 Basic Wood Cutter Miner Advanced Lappack Advanced Chainsaw Solar Panel (IndustrialCraft 2) Steel Plasma Generator Storage Block Storage Segment Storage Cell Gold Cable IDSU Advanced NanoChestPlate Magic Energy Absorber Dragon Egg Energy Siphon Thermal Generator Semifluid Generator Lightning Rod Fusion Coil Generator (IndustrialCraft 2) Nuke Red Alloy Ingot (RedPower 2) RE-Battery Aluminum Lead Iron Furnace Mining Well Combustion Engine Transformer (Immersive Engineering)

Translated Versions of Pages
Module:Infobox/thing/en-gb Bricked Steel Hull/ru Module:Infobox/thing/de Bricked Steel Hull/de User:Xbony2/backups/Portable Tank/de User:Xbony2/backups/Combustion Engine/pt-br User:NickTheRed37/Old-Style Translations/Resonant Ender/de User:NickTheRed37/Old-Style Translations/Energized Glowstone/de User:Xbony2/backups/Destabilized Redstone/de User:Xbony2/backups/Stirling Engine/pt-br User:Xbony2/backups/Stirling Engine/de User:Xbony2/backups/Multimeter/de User:Xbony2/backups/Spot Loader/de User:Xbony2/backups/Forge Lexicon/de User:Xbony2/backups/OmniWrench/de User:Xbony2/backups/EnderPouch/es User:Xbony2/backups/EnderChest/es User:Xbony2/backups/Iron Chest/es User:Xbony2/backups/Chute/es User:Xbony2/backups/Wrench (BuildCraft)/fr User:Xbony2/backups/Copper Chest/es User:Xbony2/backups/Combustion Engine/es User:Xbony2/backups/Stirling Engine/ru User:Xbony2/backups/Chute/ru User:Xbony2/backups/Iron Chest/ru User:Xbony2/backups/Copper Chest/ru User:Xbony2/backups/Wrench (BuildCraft)/ru User:Xbony2/backups/Combustion Engine/ru User:Xbony2/backups/Combustion Engine/it User:Xbony2/backups/Combustion Engine/de

And so the problems have been fixed, only 180 days after first being caused.  Chocohead Nag • Edits • Staff 13:39, 10 January 2016 (UTC)